My partner and I had a lengthy conversation about Velcro. As a heavy fighter and marshal, he often has a different view on equestrian activities and this leads to good, solid, figure-out-the-logic-behind-the-universe-because-that-seems-mad discussions. I value his experience and knowledge of armour and combat, and it has added a more rounded basis to my fanciful dreamings of gigundo crests the size of wheelbarrows. You have to admit, if someone took the field with a wheelbarrow on their helm, it'd catch your attention. He says it would be a pain.
I am a Special Education teacher by trade and this has given me more than the usual exposure to hook and loop tape. I can tell you how much certain sized rolls are from specific suppliers and which brand does which job best. I have developed an acquaintance with Velcro that my university training never prepared me for. But I have not stuck something to my hat and had someone try to knock it off.
The society rules say 'Velcro or similar methods are recommended' to attach the crest to the helm. The Kingdom rules do not add anything. So, Velcro is recommended and in use by practising riders, but another option would be acceptable as long as it does the job.
I guess most sensible way to proceed would be to talk to people who already use Velcro and magnets, develop a couple of prototypes attachments and see what sort force it takes to knock various crests off using a variety of Velcro sizes.
Showing posts with label Velcro. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Velcro. Show all posts
Thursday, 25 July 2013
Madrone Equestrian group crests
Here is the first website to exploring the use of helm crests in the SCA.
http://madrone.equestrianguild.org/Articles/building_crests_for_mounted_combat.htm
I like their description of 15th C use of crests compared to SCA use:
'In the 15th century a form of the tournament was practiced called a "Kolbenturnier" or "Baston Course." Groups of mounted knights would attempt to bash each other's crests off while keeping their own intact.
This group does equestrian work, and has adopted a modern approach to making low cost, light weight crests that attach by velcro. This is a far cry from the spectacular crests of Cenninni's era, with gold, feathers, jewels, leather and other treasures, but this method has a place in the SCA. It may not be showy, attractive or authentic, but it does provide safe, low cost ways for people to play at mounted combat.
Let's hope I can find a better method than Velcro to attach crests to my helm. Guess I'd better start reading up on Lochac Mounted Combat rules again... Nope, just recommends Velcro.
http://madrone.equestrianguild.org/Articles/building_crests_for_mounted_combat.htm
I like their description of 15th C use of crests compared to SCA use:
'In the 15th century a form of the tournament was practiced called a "Kolbenturnier" or "Baston Course." Groups of mounted knights would attempt to bash each other's crests off while keeping their own intact.
In the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA), a version of this tournament has been developed. It is usually known as "Mounted Combat" or "Crest Combat." Unlike the original Kolbenturnier, in which wooden clubs called "Kolbens" or "bastons" were employed to destroy the opponents crest, we use padded "boffer" weapons and the crests are attached with velcro. A nice solid hit dislodges the crest.'
This group does equestrian work, and has adopted a modern approach to making low cost, light weight crests that attach by velcro. This is a far cry from the spectacular crests of Cenninni's era, with gold, feathers, jewels, leather and other treasures, but this method has a place in the SCA. It may not be showy, attractive or authentic, but it does provide safe, low cost ways for people to play at mounted combat.
Let's hope I can find a better method than Velcro to attach crests to my helm. Guess I'd better start reading up on Lochac Mounted Combat rules again... Nope, just recommends Velcro.
Crests for 3 purposes
Cennino Cennini has this to say about when you may need to make a crest:
'Whenever you have occasion to make a crest or helmet for a tourney, or for rulers who have to march in state...'
This clearly shows that crests were used for both tourneys and for ceremonial purposes. I am going to try to make a ceremonial or parade helm crest from the processes described by Cennini. I would also like to make a crest that will be suitable for combat. Since SCA combat is modified, I will attempt to cater for the two main types where crests may be appropriate - equestrian mounted crest combat and heavy combat. So, that implies I need to investigate up to 3 types of crest.
1: parade crest - 'for rulers who have to march in state'
2: tourney crests for equestrian use - 'a crest... for a tourney'
3: tourney crests for heavy combat - 'a crest... for a tourney'
I want to try the following methods to make the various crests
A: moulded leather covered in plaster and paint, decorated with feathers and spangles
B: moulded leather without plaster, perhaps still painted or details carved into leather.
C: latex moulded foam crest, painted
The methods for B and C are really interchangeable, and there are some other types of crest that could be suitable for both equestrian and heavy combat. Some seem to be made from feathers, which could fit the safety requirements for equestrian use (cause no harm to horses when knocked off and trodden on), and the safety requirements for heavy combat (no plaster pieces to get in combatants eyes, no rigid tall extensions above the helm that could cause neck injuries if struck).
Here are the uses I can see for each kind
A: parade, full Cennini process
- for use by fighters when being presented to the Crown in ceremonies
- fighters, at the start of a tourney in addition to standards/banners
- at demos to make a visual impact
- for riders in formation riding and during Mounted Games (Non-Contact)
- I would loooove to see a tourney where each fighter has a crest and they are all displayed and paraded around the field by pages
B: Moulded leather
- Mounted Games (Contact) Light [Crested Combat]
- Heavy Combat, if you don't mind it getting beaten up
C: Moulded latex or foam
- this kind of crest is already in use for Heavy Combat and Equestrian Mounted Games (Contact) Light [Crested Combat]
Let's have a look at the requirements for each kind of crest.
1: parade crests
- Must look good.
- Not going to be struck, so less safety requirements or need to replace broken parts.
- Gain visual attention and add to overall pageantry
2: Equestrian crest
Taken from http://sca.org.nz/equestrian/rules-forms.html
-'Nationally recognized approved safety helmets are recommended at all times when riding.' Many people may prefer to mount their crest on a modern certified helmet. It means there can be no drilling or changing the helmet to attach the crest.
-Taken from http://www.sca.org/officers/equestrian/pdf/equestrian_handbook.pdf
'(b) Crests for mounted crest combat.
(1) Crests shall be at least 5-inches in height.
(2) The crest must be constructed so as not to present an undue hazard if a rider should land on it, or a horse step on it.
(3) The crest must be attached in such a way so as to be easily dislodged by a minimal force blow. Velcro or similar methods are recommended. '
-Also taken from http://www.sca.org/officers/equestrian/pdf/equestrian_handbook.pdf
Must be able to be struck by this and not become dangerous or be so destroyed that the owner cries at the thought of having to remake the crest-
'2. Weapon requirements.
(a) Single Handed weapons.
(1) Mounted Crest Combat. "Boffer" weapons are to be used in this activity.
a. Base material shall be schedule 40 ½-inch PVC plastic pipe. Both ends must be capped, but accessible to marshals for inspection’ to the requirement for end caps to the swords.
b. Minimum ½-inch closed cell foam padding over all striking surfaces.
c. Minimum diameter of 1 ¼-inch.
d. If quillions are used they should not extend more than 1 inch beyond the hand when held.
e. Thrusting tips are not allowed in mounted crest combat. '
3: Heavy Combat
On talking to several heavy fighters, marshals and senior marshals it seems that the biggest points that come out of discussing crests are
* Why would you wear something that would get broken?
* Why would you wear a crest at all? This seemed to be a case of there not being a specific requirement for a well known event (such as Tournament of the Thirty) and the disadvantage of having a thing on your head during regular fights seemed to turn people off. The idea came up several times that if other fighters were wearing one, they might be happy to try one too, but until that time it didn't seem worth it.
* The crest would need to be easily distinguishable from the plumes used by Plumed Participants. Crests with feathers could only be used in parade and tourney scenarios. It may be up to the marshallate to allow other forms of crest in wars.
* The plaster shattering could cause a safety risk by getting in combatants eyes
* The people who were interested in using a crest to add pageantry to their game were also willing to drill mounting holes in their helms. Everyone else was mildly horrified.
* People love talking about high power magnets. Some people were willing to put power sources in their helms in order to attach the crests by magnets. Y'all are mad. Very entertaining.
* Typically, the boys did not like the idea of wearing peacock feathers at all. Oddly, most people seemed fine with ostrich and duck feathers. Perhaps they have become commonplace in the SCA.
* A lot of people had heard of the latex foam crests in use in the US and the general sentiment was that the modern construction was not really an issue because they were very durable.
* The crest needs to either be specifically and safely destructible (such as for a specific tourney, maybe where points are gained for targeting the opponents crest) or able to withstand blows of reasonable force from inch and a quarter rattan weaponry. This could mean that the crest is dislodged, which means it doesn't have to survive the full force of the blow. It could also mean that a moulded leather crest might be popped back into basic shape to survive through a tourney.
Using historically authentic methods, materials and processes is of great import to me. The parade crest is to fulfil this desire.
We do play in the SCA, and that brings modern safety requirements and combat rules into the scene. Reality also brings things like cost and availability. The goal of the Royal Artisan project brings another - inspire people. Some people in the SCA will be inspired by an historically accurate, beautiful piece, while others will be keen to make something that is easy to use in combat without needing to reshape, replaster and refeather the thing after every use. I am hoping that by attempting a combination of crests they may be more accessible to the wide range of people we have playing in Lochac today.
'Whenever you have occasion to make a crest or helmet for a tourney, or for rulers who have to march in state...'
This clearly shows that crests were used for both tourneys and for ceremonial purposes. I am going to try to make a ceremonial or parade helm crest from the processes described by Cennini. I would also like to make a crest that will be suitable for combat. Since SCA combat is modified, I will attempt to cater for the two main types where crests may be appropriate - equestrian mounted crest combat and heavy combat. So, that implies I need to investigate up to 3 types of crest.
1: parade crest - 'for rulers who have to march in state'
2: tourney crests for equestrian use - 'a crest... for a tourney'
3: tourney crests for heavy combat - 'a crest... for a tourney'
I want to try the following methods to make the various crests
A: moulded leather covered in plaster and paint, decorated with feathers and spangles
B: moulded leather without plaster, perhaps still painted or details carved into leather.
C: latex moulded foam crest, painted
The methods for B and C are really interchangeable, and there are some other types of crest that could be suitable for both equestrian and heavy combat. Some seem to be made from feathers, which could fit the safety requirements for equestrian use (cause no harm to horses when knocked off and trodden on), and the safety requirements for heavy combat (no plaster pieces to get in combatants eyes, no rigid tall extensions above the helm that could cause neck injuries if struck).
Here are the uses I can see for each kind
A: parade, full Cennini process
- for use by fighters when being presented to the Crown in ceremonies
- fighters, at the start of a tourney in addition to standards/banners
- at demos to make a visual impact
- for riders in formation riding and during Mounted Games (Non-Contact)
- I would loooove to see a tourney where each fighter has a crest and they are all displayed and paraded around the field by pages
B: Moulded leather
- Mounted Games (Contact) Light [Crested Combat]
- Heavy Combat, if you don't mind it getting beaten up
C: Moulded latex or foam
- this kind of crest is already in use for Heavy Combat and Equestrian Mounted Games (Contact) Light [Crested Combat]
Let's have a look at the requirements for each kind of crest.
1: parade crests
- Must look good.
- Not going to be struck, so less safety requirements or need to replace broken parts.
- Gain visual attention and add to overall pageantry
2: Equestrian crest
Taken from http://sca.org.nz/equestrian/rules-forms.html
-'Nationally recognized approved safety helmets are recommended at all times when riding.' Many people may prefer to mount their crest on a modern certified helmet. It means there can be no drilling or changing the helmet to attach the crest.
-Taken from http://www.sca.org/officers/equestrian/pdf/equestrian_handbook.pdf
'(b) Crests for mounted crest combat.
(1) Crests shall be at least 5-inches in height.
(2) The crest must be constructed so as not to present an undue hazard if a rider should land on it, or a horse step on it.
(3) The crest must be attached in such a way so as to be easily dislodged by a minimal force blow. Velcro or similar methods are recommended. '
-Also taken from http://www.sca.org/officers/equestrian/pdf/equestrian_handbook.pdf
Must be able to be struck by this and not become dangerous or be so destroyed that the owner cries at the thought of having to remake the crest-
'2. Weapon requirements.
(a) Single Handed weapons.
(1) Mounted Crest Combat. "Boffer" weapons are to be used in this activity.
a. Base material shall be schedule 40 ½-inch PVC plastic pipe. Both ends must be capped, but accessible to marshals for inspection’ to the requirement for end caps to the swords.
b. Minimum ½-inch closed cell foam padding over all striking surfaces.
c. Minimum diameter of 1 ¼-inch.
d. If quillions are used they should not extend more than 1 inch beyond the hand when held.
e. Thrusting tips are not allowed in mounted crest combat. '
3: Heavy Combat
On talking to several heavy fighters, marshals and senior marshals it seems that the biggest points that come out of discussing crests are
* Why would you wear something that would get broken?
* Why would you wear a crest at all? This seemed to be a case of there not being a specific requirement for a well known event (such as Tournament of the Thirty) and the disadvantage of having a thing on your head during regular fights seemed to turn people off. The idea came up several times that if other fighters were wearing one, they might be happy to try one too, but until that time it didn't seem worth it.
* The crest would need to be easily distinguishable from the plumes used by Plumed Participants. Crests with feathers could only be used in parade and tourney scenarios. It may be up to the marshallate to allow other forms of crest in wars.
* The plaster shattering could cause a safety risk by getting in combatants eyes
* The people who were interested in using a crest to add pageantry to their game were also willing to drill mounting holes in their helms. Everyone else was mildly horrified.
* People love talking about high power magnets. Some people were willing to put power sources in their helms in order to attach the crests by magnets. Y'all are mad. Very entertaining.
* Typically, the boys did not like the idea of wearing peacock feathers at all. Oddly, most people seemed fine with ostrich and duck feathers. Perhaps they have become commonplace in the SCA.
* A lot of people had heard of the latex foam crests in use in the US and the general sentiment was that the modern construction was not really an issue because they were very durable.
* The crest needs to either be specifically and safely destructible (such as for a specific tourney, maybe where points are gained for targeting the opponents crest) or able to withstand blows of reasonable force from inch and a quarter rattan weaponry. This could mean that the crest is dislodged, which means it doesn't have to survive the full force of the blow. It could also mean that a moulded leather crest might be popped back into basic shape to survive through a tourney.
Using historically authentic methods, materials and processes is of great import to me. The parade crest is to fulfil this desire.
We do play in the SCA, and that brings modern safety requirements and combat rules into the scene. Reality also brings things like cost and availability. The goal of the Royal Artisan project brings another - inspire people. Some people in the SCA will be inspired by an historically accurate, beautiful piece, while others will be keen to make something that is easy to use in combat without needing to reshape, replaster and refeather the thing after every use. I am hoping that by attempting a combination of crests they may be more accessible to the wide range of people we have playing in Lochac today.
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